bobthedino
Apr 27, 08:28 AM
And here I thought that data wasn't sent to Apple? At least they encrypted it so that you can't tell what actually is sent.
You should read Apple's reply to a query from two Congressmen in July 2010: http://markey.house.gov/docs/applemarkeybarton7-12-10.pdf
Apple clearly states that location data is being collected anonymously and is being used to maintain Apple's database of cell tower and Wi-Fi hotspot locations. Prior to iOS 3.2, Apple made use of similar databases provided by Skyhook and Google, but now Apple has created its own.
You should read Apple's reply to a query from two Congressmen in July 2010: http://markey.house.gov/docs/applemarkeybarton7-12-10.pdf
Apple clearly states that location data is being collected anonymously and is being used to maintain Apple's database of cell tower and Wi-Fi hotspot locations. Prior to iOS 3.2, Apple made use of similar databases provided by Skyhook and Google, but now Apple has created its own.
SWC
Aug 7, 06:35 PM
heh... they give MS so much crap for photocopying, but if anything, this is more or less taking a page out of MS's book with System Restore. Granted, it looks like it will be better, but still, MS had this kind of thing first.
This only restores system files doesn't restore documents, pictures etc.
Apple has never (as far as I am aware) held features back in their presentation before. I think they just weren't ready to be shown off yet which is no biggie it gives them some steam for macworld 07.
Time machine: a fancy front end to the type of backup that people have been doing for years. Mirra with less features?
Mail: hello outlook light
spotlight: Microsoft did it before you, you just had it integrated in the os first.
spaces: virtuedesktops but a tad fancier in presentation
dashboard: konfabulator + active desktop light
64 bit: yawn...xp 64
ical: exchange calendaring
accessibility: bleh nothing revolutionary here
ichat keynote and core animation are the only two truly unique features they introduced.
Sure it�s nice to have them all bundled neatly into the OS but for a company to base almost their entire signage around someone else copying them, there sure is a lot of prior art showing their innovation. I admit they do it in a very well integrated and visually appealing way and they even add tons of nice touches here and there but they aren't always first.
I am a Mac user, but not blind to the real world like some. Apple is like George Clooney in the smug episode of south park.
This only restores system files doesn't restore documents, pictures etc.
Apple has never (as far as I am aware) held features back in their presentation before. I think they just weren't ready to be shown off yet which is no biggie it gives them some steam for macworld 07.
Time machine: a fancy front end to the type of backup that people have been doing for years. Mirra with less features?
Mail: hello outlook light
spotlight: Microsoft did it before you, you just had it integrated in the os first.
spaces: virtuedesktops but a tad fancier in presentation
dashboard: konfabulator + active desktop light
64 bit: yawn...xp 64
ical: exchange calendaring
accessibility: bleh nothing revolutionary here
ichat keynote and core animation are the only two truly unique features they introduced.
Sure it�s nice to have them all bundled neatly into the OS but for a company to base almost their entire signage around someone else copying them, there sure is a lot of prior art showing their innovation. I admit they do it in a very well integrated and visually appealing way and they even add tons of nice touches here and there but they aren't always first.
I am a Mac user, but not blind to the real world like some. Apple is like George Clooney in the smug episode of south park.
patrick0brien
Jul 20, 06:39 PM
Actually, that was my point, but now that you mention it, reversed hyperthreading would solve some problems.
In the long run (really long run, I'm talking quantumcomputers here) however, you are right, and innovation in computing will mostly come from software and how you tell the computer what to do. The nec-plus-ultra would be thinking of a result and getting it (or saying it to your computer) like a photoshop user going, well I would like the sun being more dominant in that picture, the power lines removed, and make those persons look younger. Boom. It happens.
-Macnoviz
Woah. Well, there's more than raw computing involved there, there is context for the computer to understand. What is the "sun" what does "Dominant" really mean? What are power lines? What does "remove" really mean? And let's not go into what kind of DB would be needed to describe all of the differences a person's face exhibits over a lifetime!
I'm sure we'll get there and such 'life' DB's built I hope there is a standard set! Who says we don't need this really big drives!
In the long run (really long run, I'm talking quantumcomputers here) however, you are right, and innovation in computing will mostly come from software and how you tell the computer what to do. The nec-plus-ultra would be thinking of a result and getting it (or saying it to your computer) like a photoshop user going, well I would like the sun being more dominant in that picture, the power lines removed, and make those persons look younger. Boom. It happens.
-Macnoviz
Woah. Well, there's more than raw computing involved there, there is context for the computer to understand. What is the "sun" what does "Dominant" really mean? What are power lines? What does "remove" really mean? And let's not go into what kind of DB would be needed to describe all of the differences a person's face exhibits over a lifetime!
I'm sure we'll get there and such 'life' DB's built I hope there is a standard set! Who says we don't need this really big drives!
bokdol
Aug 18, 09:22 AM
hey bokdol, you and i can start a business and help all the intel mac pro users dispose of their old G5 power macs
we can go into business :)
i'm in
we can start today
we can go into business :)
i'm in
we can start today
bradc
Jul 27, 11:19 AM
"...Core 2 Duo chips need less electricity, drawing just 65 watts compared to the Pentium 4�s 95 watts and Pentium D�s 130 watts"
Good Lord - does anybody know what the G5 is? I'd imagine that the elaborate cooling system in the current G5 towers probably won't be needed it it's running anything like the D's...
Don't ask! Hahahaha, the G5's run hot, I'd hate to know how much they're sucking but with a 600W power supply...it's a lot;)
Good Lord - does anybody know what the G5 is? I'd imagine that the elaborate cooling system in the current G5 towers probably won't be needed it it's running anything like the D's...
Don't ask! Hahahaha, the G5's run hot, I'd hate to know how much they're sucking but with a 600W power supply...it's a lot;)
Bill McEnaney
Apr 29, 10:03 AM
Labelling birthers as racist, paranoid, or nutters is just pandering to the distraction of all this. The persistence of this "issue" could be more of a logical desire to belittle or erode the political power of the current president; which is akin to schoolyard gossiping, sure, but it's still strangely effective.
The name-calling is childish, too. In fact, you usually hear it from left-wingers.
The name-calling is childish, too. In fact, you usually hear it from left-wingers.
Ktulu
Aug 25, 08:23 PM
Apple always made the Pismo. I don't know the exact years but it was a black G3 PowerBook.
That's right. thank you I completely forgot about that.:D
That's right. thank you I completely forgot about that.:D
.a
Oct 15, 02:15 PM
... hmmm ... i just ordered a mac pro quad 3ghz ... 8 cores would be somehow nicer ;)
.a
.a
littleman23408
Dec 6, 08:15 PM
I got an 03 Lotus Elise :rolleyes:
Its a nice car, i just have no use for it. Idk if there are Lotus-only races later on so i didnt sell it yet.
I noticed in my garage that theres an option for sharing cars online. I havent read the GT5 manual so i have no idea what it does, but i assume it would allow my PSN friends to drive my cars if i'm not using them. I shared my Citroen, if someone is logged on later check the Online tab of your garage and see if its there. Just dont put too many miles on it ;)
Werd, I'll check later. I know I noticed you online earlier. I wanted to send you a message so we could race. I went in the lobby and was just :confused:
So how do we go about setting up a two (or more) race?
Its a nice car, i just have no use for it. Idk if there are Lotus-only races later on so i didnt sell it yet.
I noticed in my garage that theres an option for sharing cars online. I havent read the GT5 manual so i have no idea what it does, but i assume it would allow my PSN friends to drive my cars if i'm not using them. I shared my Citroen, if someone is logged on later check the Online tab of your garage and see if its there. Just dont put too many miles on it ;)
Werd, I'll check later. I know I noticed you online earlier. I wanted to send you a message so we could race. I went in the lobby and was just :confused:
So how do we go about setting up a two (or more) race?
err404
Apr 25, 02:31 PM
Obviously this IS an issue; just not a very big one. Considering the low quality of the data and the nature if what is stored, it is not well suited for tracking user whereabouts with any level of confidence.
Apple does need to address this, but I don't see any malicious intent. The data serves a valuable function for the user and is not collected by Apple.
Apple does need to address this, but I don't see any malicious intent. The data serves a valuable function for the user and is not collected by Apple.
lfc
Apr 6, 11:06 AM
I am shocked that anyone finds this as a positive.
So you all want a drop from 1.86/2.13 to 1.4GHz CPUs in your 13" MBA? That is a 30% drop.
Then you want another drop of approaching 50% in graphics performance? Remember these IGPs clock in much lower than the STD voltage SB used in 13" MBP.
I find this completely backwards from Apple's current position on both CPU and graphics, and I don't think anyone would end up with a faster or better 13" MBA than the current generation. Apple would certainly have to bring back the backlit keyboard and introduce Thunderbolt to sucker anyone into buying such inferior junk! I would recommend people buy the current generation on clearance rather than lose performance everywhere like this. If this is the chip Apple uses in the 13" MBA, prepare for a big drop in capabilities!
I am still in shock anyone finds this a positive? Have you all read the clock speed? The facts about the chip and IGP in ultra low voltage variants?
Umm... You do realise clock speed is not everything don't you?
I hope you don't think a C2D is better then a SB Core i5
You definitely dont know what your talking about.
So you all want a drop from 1.86/2.13 to 1.4GHz CPUs in your 13" MBA? That is a 30% drop.
Then you want another drop of approaching 50% in graphics performance? Remember these IGPs clock in much lower than the STD voltage SB used in 13" MBP.
I find this completely backwards from Apple's current position on both CPU and graphics, and I don't think anyone would end up with a faster or better 13" MBA than the current generation. Apple would certainly have to bring back the backlit keyboard and introduce Thunderbolt to sucker anyone into buying such inferior junk! I would recommend people buy the current generation on clearance rather than lose performance everywhere like this. If this is the chip Apple uses in the 13" MBA, prepare for a big drop in capabilities!
I am still in shock anyone finds this a positive? Have you all read the clock speed? The facts about the chip and IGP in ultra low voltage variants?
Umm... You do realise clock speed is not everything don't you?
I hope you don't think a C2D is better then a SB Core i5
You definitely dont know what your talking about.
Popeye206
Apr 11, 02:17 PM
LOL at all of the people saying it's a big mistake and bad move on Apple's part. They know what they are doing. Why would they do something that would hurt their iPhone sales?!
They just put out the iPhone 4 verizon. If they refresh in June they will have to do both AT&T and Verizon. Otherwise, Verizon will always play second fiddle with updates. Dumb move. They are waiting for enough time to pass where it won't be just 6 months between verizon updates.
I don't think Apple is waiting because of the Verizon phone. I think they just are making more changes than just simple upgrades and it's going to take longer. I think they also see that iPhone4 sales are still heathy so why rush it?
Release iOS 5.0 this summer, then follow-up with the new iPhone5 in the fall. Keep up the momentum and slaughter the competition in the fall during the busiest season for gadgets.
I see nothing wrong with the iPhone5 in the fall. "Na sayers" can say what they want, but in the long run it does not matter as long as the iPhone5 is a healthy upgrade.
The only downside is, Apple may be so darn busy in the fall with new products, that you won't even be able to get in their stores!
They just put out the iPhone 4 verizon. If they refresh in June they will have to do both AT&T and Verizon. Otherwise, Verizon will always play second fiddle with updates. Dumb move. They are waiting for enough time to pass where it won't be just 6 months between verizon updates.
I don't think Apple is waiting because of the Verizon phone. I think they just are making more changes than just simple upgrades and it's going to take longer. I think they also see that iPhone4 sales are still heathy so why rush it?
Release iOS 5.0 this summer, then follow-up with the new iPhone5 in the fall. Keep up the momentum and slaughter the competition in the fall during the busiest season for gadgets.
I see nothing wrong with the iPhone5 in the fall. "Na sayers" can say what they want, but in the long run it does not matter as long as the iPhone5 is a healthy upgrade.
The only downside is, Apple may be so darn busy in the fall with new products, that you won't even be able to get in their stores!
freeny
Aug 7, 04:18 PM
Time Machine looks pretty sweet. How do you think it will work in terms of space requirements?
you would be safe in assuming to have double the amount of space used by files on your main HD. This will end up being like RAM, The more you have the better it will serve you....
Lacie is very excited about this im sure:D
you would be safe in assuming to have double the amount of space used by files on your main HD. This will end up being like RAM, The more you have the better it will serve you....
Lacie is very excited about this im sure:D
Northgrove
Apr 11, 02:35 PM
I don't think a September release is a problem. My contract ends next year anyway, and that's a contract signed for an iPhone 3Gs... (binding plan for 2 years) So it's time for me to upgrade *at earliest* at a time when this iPhone 5 will supposedly recently have been released anyway. Sounds perfect to me, and I don't feel "bored" of my 3Gs in the slightest. It's the apps that does the heavy lifting of this "experience" for me, and not the physical phone model/design. :)
As for new, cheaper, entry points for iOS... A guy at work *and* also a friend of mine both recently bought an iPhone 3G. Not 4. Not 3Gs. There's your very cheap entry point iOS phone today. And they're happy with theirs, knowing that they didn't get the latest CPU etc. But they knew this, and they were very cheap. Not a big problem IMHO. Don't forget the after market.
As for new, cheaper, entry points for iOS... A guy at work *and* also a friend of mine both recently bought an iPhone 3G. Not 4. Not 3Gs. There's your very cheap entry point iOS phone today. And they're happy with theirs, knowing that they didn't get the latest CPU etc. But they knew this, and they were very cheap. Not a big problem IMHO. Don't forget the after market.
Willis
Jul 28, 09:39 PM
Multimedia, Snowy and Grokgod,
Thanks for the continued thoughts. A store manager said she would be flexible with the 14 day return date, as lnog as I understand that I would pay the restock fee of 10%. What that means to me is I will hold on to this machine until the WWDC and if new model is announced I will return and repurchase, eating the restock fee.( Kind of a pay for usage plan I look at it as.) If no new enhancements are announced with the iMac i guess I will keep mine.
However, there is the thought as one of you have brought up to just reetuen and wait until Sept. when it may be more likely to arrive. A slippery slop0e I know but I am leaning mroe toward a return and repurchase, as a sort of insruance policy of sorts.
I know I can't have my cake and eat it...., but I was looking for insight into how likely an improvement in the iMac is this August.
Thanks again!
Merk850
Update this august... not likely. It will be all pro. Any consumer will be Paris Expo. The imac G5 was launched there. why not a Core 2 Duo iMac?
Thanks for the continued thoughts. A store manager said she would be flexible with the 14 day return date, as lnog as I understand that I would pay the restock fee of 10%. What that means to me is I will hold on to this machine until the WWDC and if new model is announced I will return and repurchase, eating the restock fee.( Kind of a pay for usage plan I look at it as.) If no new enhancements are announced with the iMac i guess I will keep mine.
However, there is the thought as one of you have brought up to just reetuen and wait until Sept. when it may be more likely to arrive. A slippery slop0e I know but I am leaning mroe toward a return and repurchase, as a sort of insruance policy of sorts.
I know I can't have my cake and eat it...., but I was looking for insight into how likely an improvement in the iMac is this August.
Thanks again!
Merk850
Update this august... not likely. It will be all pro. Any consumer will be Paris Expo. The imac G5 was launched there. why not a Core 2 Duo iMac?
appleguy123
Feb 28, 07:18 PM
Do you realize how incredibly rare paedophilia is? Also the Media is stupid and uses the wrong words intentionally. Truth, outright slanderous lies, what's the difference if it sells copies eh?
I wasn't around in the 1970's, but I'm pretty sure that pedophilia wasn't normal then.
Some of this may be media frenzy, but if even one child rapist is hidden by the Catholic Church, it doesn't reflect well on them.
"In the 1970s, pedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children," the pope said. "It was maintained - even within the realm of Catholic theology - that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a 'better than' and a 'worse than.' Nothing is good or bad in itself."
I wasn't around in the 1970's, but I'm pretty sure that pedophilia wasn't normal then.
Some of this may be media frenzy, but if even one child rapist is hidden by the Catholic Church, it doesn't reflect well on them.
"In the 1970s, pedophilia was theorized as something fully in conformity with man and even with children," the pope said. "It was maintained - even within the realm of Catholic theology - that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a 'better than' and a 'worse than.' Nothing is good or bad in itself."
alent1234
Mar 22, 01:40 PM
Is this a joke? What specs? Where are the apps, where are amazing games, where are publications and magazines? No where to be found.
Playbook will not even scratch the surface - you heart it here first.
lulz:apple:
the web is not an app
Playbook will not even scratch the surface - you heart it here first.
lulz:apple:
the web is not an app
bigbossbmb
Aug 19, 08:19 PM
That's why I'm waiting until December 10 to mail in my Crossgrade form and DVD. I wanted to get all the updates until the offer expires December 20 on the install DVDs I get with my Crossgrade. Thanks for pointing out that detail. :)
I really doubt that they are going to put the new updates onto the crossgrade discs. I just got mine and it didn't include the 5.1.1 update...maybe a 5.2 update would be different. But I don't think it is really a reason to wait.
I really doubt that they are going to put the new updates onto the crossgrade discs. I just got mine and it didn't include the 5.1.1 update...maybe a 5.2 update would be different. But I don't think it is really a reason to wait.
wpotere
Apr 27, 12:15 PM
Yes.
Actually, we're going to have to ask you to leave the country. You and your fake birth certificate aren't welcome here.
LOL... I'll just draw it up in crayon, that should suffice.
Actually, we're going to have to ask you to leave the country. You and your fake birth certificate aren't welcome here.
LOL... I'll just draw it up in crayon, that should suffice.
Glideslope
Mar 31, 06:08 PM
John Gruber's take:
Can't say I disagree.
Exactly. Anyone who did not see this coming deserves what was planned years ago. Likeable, Trustworthy, Product. Google has none.
I laugh at all the Android users about to bend over. Enjoy :apple:
Can't say I disagree.
Exactly. Anyone who did not see this coming deserves what was planned years ago. Likeable, Trustworthy, Product. Google has none.
I laugh at all the Android users about to bend over. Enjoy :apple:
j_maddison
Sep 19, 05:22 AM
In Macbook/Pro are updating in Novemeber...It means Apple is 3 months behind all laptop manufactures...
I seriously doubt that Apple will let that happen, but then again, they are apple, they think differently!
Yep they do think 'differently', sadly it backfires on them occasionally. They already have the label of being a company that sells expensive/ overpriced hardware. Now they're risking developing a reputation for outdated hardware. Clever marketing there Apple :rolleyes:
I seriously doubt that Apple will let that happen, but then again, they are apple, they think differently!
Yep they do think 'differently', sadly it backfires on them occasionally. They already have the label of being a company that sells expensive/ overpriced hardware. Now they're risking developing a reputation for outdated hardware. Clever marketing there Apple :rolleyes:
ClimbingTheLog
Jul 20, 12:56 PM
Anyone else think this is getting out of hand? Two cores, great improvement. Four cores, ehh it's faster but Joe can't tell. Eight cores, now thats just stupid.
Let me guess it will only come with 512mb of Ram :p (ok it will be at least a GB).
Have you ever owned a machine that hasn't been CPU bound? I know I haven't.
you need to do your math better, extra core = 1.5x - 1.8x speed increase. but still the same power usage as a normal core!
Where do you get these magical free electrons to drive the second core? That's some fancy silicon that uses 0W.
eight cores + Tiger = Octopussy?!?
Even Apple isn't that cool. Alas, I fear "Mac Pro 8x3.2"
How fast do you want mail to go? The main reasons you need good processors is not for browsing, e-mail, text, and such and such. I highly doubt someone who does all these things on a five year old computer will be much slower than someone on a 16 GB RAM top of the line Powermac
Have you ever done a search on a large volume of mail with AppleMail? That can eat my CPU for hours on a large IMAP mailstore on a 1.5 year old Mac. How about using Firefox with a number of useful extensions? CPU pegged for minutes when loading up the day's news stories from my RSS reader, and that's with a 2-year old Mac.
Bring the speed.
Let me guess it will only come with 512mb of Ram :p (ok it will be at least a GB).
Have you ever owned a machine that hasn't been CPU bound? I know I haven't.
you need to do your math better, extra core = 1.5x - 1.8x speed increase. but still the same power usage as a normal core!
Where do you get these magical free electrons to drive the second core? That's some fancy silicon that uses 0W.
eight cores + Tiger = Octopussy?!?
Even Apple isn't that cool. Alas, I fear "Mac Pro 8x3.2"
How fast do you want mail to go? The main reasons you need good processors is not for browsing, e-mail, text, and such and such. I highly doubt someone who does all these things on a five year old computer will be much slower than someone on a 16 GB RAM top of the line Powermac
Have you ever done a search on a large volume of mail with AppleMail? That can eat my CPU for hours on a large IMAP mailstore on a 1.5 year old Mac. How about using Firefox with a number of useful extensions? CPU pegged for minutes when loading up the day's news stories from my RSS reader, and that's with a 2-year old Mac.
Bring the speed.
Bill McEnaney
Apr 27, 01:26 PM
You do realize that Bush started that right? As for Ford, their European division saved their butts and the jobs lost would have made the recession a lot worse. Yeah, good idea, let it all fail. Maybe we should let the government fail as well eh? They seem to be having monetary issues now.
Who would think I'd support Bush? He's not conservative enough for me, and his administration spent to much.
How much did government intervene in business affairs during the Roaring 20's? The government has already failed to do what it should do: It should promote the common good. I find it hard to believe that the U.S. Government had this country's best interests at heart when I hear Mrs. Pelosi say that to find out what's in Obamacare, you need to pass it.
I know a lot about alcoholism and codependence because my mother is a nurse who specialized in treating alcoholics and other drug addicts and in counseling them. You don't help an alcoholic by protecting him from the consequences of his actions. The protection can help him make even bigger mistakes. I've seen that happen in many families I know of that include alcoholics. I also know about entitled welfare recipients who abuse social programs by demanding too much from social programs, by getting it, and by defrauding them. I saw the entitlement firsthand when a relative of mine was a landlord who rented houses to welfare recipients. Welfare recipients ruined a house, my relative kept the security deposit, and then the family got the Department of Social Services to put them into a house for twice the rent my relative charged. But the family still had the nerve to complain that my relative had overcharged it.
Who would think I'd support Bush? He's not conservative enough for me, and his administration spent to much.
How much did government intervene in business affairs during the Roaring 20's? The government has already failed to do what it should do: It should promote the common good. I find it hard to believe that the U.S. Government had this country's best interests at heart when I hear Mrs. Pelosi say that to find out what's in Obamacare, you need to pass it.
I know a lot about alcoholism and codependence because my mother is a nurse who specialized in treating alcoholics and other drug addicts and in counseling them. You don't help an alcoholic by protecting him from the consequences of his actions. The protection can help him make even bigger mistakes. I've seen that happen in many families I know of that include alcoholics. I also know about entitled welfare recipients who abuse social programs by demanding too much from social programs, by getting it, and by defrauding them. I saw the entitlement firsthand when a relative of mine was a landlord who rented houses to welfare recipients. Welfare recipients ruined a house, my relative kept the security deposit, and then the family got the Department of Social Services to put them into a house for twice the rent my relative charged. But the family still had the nerve to complain that my relative had overcharged it.
Tomaz
Aug 7, 06:07 PM
Innovation isn't creating new ideas, but improving them.
For instance, Spotlight searching wasn't new. BeOS had something similar. But Apple improved it and integrated it into their OS.
See, I have Virtue desktops. I've tried Desktop Manager, You Control: Desktops. But they're all just hacks. Spaces looks mcuh cleaner, simpler and elegant than any of those. That's what I expect from Apple, and they did not let me down.
As for Time Machine, no the idea is not new, even for Microsoft. But Apple is making it simple. Easy enough for mom and dad to use. Personally I think having a wormhole-space interface is kickass.
Ok my last post on this topic before I'm getting on peoples nerves: Copying, improving and whatever you wanna call it is ok, I don't care where an idea came from as long as the outcome is good. But Apple always presents their innovations as their inventions and claims that everyone else copies. In todays keynote they even made a big deal out of how MS copies Apple (banner, on stage), and afterwards they introduced only stuff that they copied (and maybe improved) from MS, Linux... that's just not very sympathetic!
For instance, Spotlight searching wasn't new. BeOS had something similar. But Apple improved it and integrated it into their OS.
See, I have Virtue desktops. I've tried Desktop Manager, You Control: Desktops. But they're all just hacks. Spaces looks mcuh cleaner, simpler and elegant than any of those. That's what I expect from Apple, and they did not let me down.
As for Time Machine, no the idea is not new, even for Microsoft. But Apple is making it simple. Easy enough for mom and dad to use. Personally I think having a wormhole-space interface is kickass.
Ok my last post on this topic before I'm getting on peoples nerves: Copying, improving and whatever you wanna call it is ok, I don't care where an idea came from as long as the outcome is good. But Apple always presents their innovations as their inventions and claims that everyone else copies. In todays keynote they even made a big deal out of how MS copies Apple (banner, on stage), and afterwards they introduced only stuff that they copied (and maybe improved) from MS, Linux... that's just not very sympathetic!