amin
Aug 19, 09:42 AM
You make good points. I guess we'll learn more as more information becomes available.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Mister Snitch
Mar 31, 02:43 PM
By the end of this thread, it'll be impossible to decipher what the original story was about.
As opposed to YOUR post, which is all about the original story. Right.
As opposed to YOUR post, which is all about the original story. Right.
Mr. Anderson
Sep 13, 11:05 AM
meaning that unless you have a way of really stressing 8 cores, you may be better off with 4 faster cores in your Mac Pro
drool - i'll take 8 cores for my 3D rendering :D
I think I'll be selling my quad G5 next year for a 8 core Mac Pro.
D
drool - i'll take 8 cores for my 3D rendering :D
I think I'll be selling my quad G5 next year for a 8 core Mac Pro.
D
HyperZboy
Apr 7, 01:52 PM
lol... You really think Intel is the reason Apple laptops cost what they do? Really?
I never said I considered it overpriced.
I was making a point that it's now underpowered for some users and less powerful than the previous model.
And another point... I'm not really blaming Apple. Obviously, it's Intel's fault for forcing the Intel graphics on Apple, among other companies that plan to use the new CPUs and Intel logic boards.
For many people with the current model, the new Macbook Air will be a downgrade unless you really need some of the other new features.
I never said I considered it overpriced.
I was making a point that it's now underpowered for some users and less powerful than the previous model.
And another point... I'm not really blaming Apple. Obviously, it's Intel's fault for forcing the Intel graphics on Apple, among other companies that plan to use the new CPUs and Intel logic boards.
For many people with the current model, the new Macbook Air will be a downgrade unless you really need some of the other new features.
SactoGuy18
Apr 8, 06:34 AM
I think this whole mess comes down to this: there is a REAL shortage of the iPad 2, especially since Foxconn can no longer keep up with demand due to the ongoing situation in Japan with several Japanese suppliers incapable of supplying parts to Foxconn for the iPad 2. As such, Best Buy is taking advantage of this situation by deliberately holding back sales of the iPad 2, and Apple call them out on it. I would not be surprised that Apple ends up issuing a recall order to take back every iPad 2 from Best Buy and they end up being sold at Apple Stores instead.
And you wonder why Microsoft is not willing to extend their Signature program of highly-optimized Windows 7 computers (Signature PC's aren't loaded with "trialware" l like normal retail PC's are) to Best Buy, even though such a computer would work extremely well for customers and would end up being huge best sellers for Best buy.
And you wonder why Microsoft is not willing to extend their Signature program of highly-optimized Windows 7 computers (Signature PC's aren't loaded with "trialware" l like normal retail PC's are) to Best Buy, even though such a computer would work extremely well for customers and would end up being huge best sellers for Best buy.
littleman23408
Nov 30, 09:54 PM
Its tough, but i did it. Unless you are going to hit someone you really dont need to slow down for many turns. The buses dont go fast enough for it to be a problem. You can get to 11th at the first turn but cutting in very close to the cone (dont hit it!) and downshifting to slide a little. Sneak into 11th and start drafting the bus in front of you. Theres an easy left where you can pass on the inside and take one more place, then get as close to the tires on the right as possible and you'll be able to grab a few more spots before you hit the 2nd straight.
The next turn is a hard left into an easy 180� right. Be careful on the left as its easy to hit a cone, then cut close to the inside of the right. When you get out of that turn you should be directly behind the blue and teal buses. You wont be able to pass them for a while so draft as best as you can until you get to the hard left at the complete other end of the track. Take that turn really wide and stay to the inside as you exit. You should be able to stay at speed and sneak right by if you are careful enough to not bump into them. If you are too close just back off a little, as long as you pass the blue buses at this turn you are doing great. Just be careful.
The next is a hard left that takes you back to the starting line. If you got ahead of the blue and teal bus there will be a bit of congestion there. Stay close to the inside but be careful you dont hit the grass too much. You should be able to get 5th or 6th before the 2nd lap starts. Follow the same lines as before and watch your corners for a chance to pass on the inside. I got to 1st at the last long straight, but the dark green bus in front is a little violent, so screw the line and do whatever it takes to stay away from him. Take both last lefts carefully and you'll grab first.
Its tough, but possible when you learn the track. I havent tried the Lotus challenge yet because i've been working on licenses, but i assume its roughly the same process just much faster.
Cool thanks. I will give this a try. Anything to get this bus done. I hate the tasks where whatever it is you are driving is real slow!
The next turn is a hard left into an easy 180� right. Be careful on the left as its easy to hit a cone, then cut close to the inside of the right. When you get out of that turn you should be directly behind the blue and teal buses. You wont be able to pass them for a while so draft as best as you can until you get to the hard left at the complete other end of the track. Take that turn really wide and stay to the inside as you exit. You should be able to stay at speed and sneak right by if you are careful enough to not bump into them. If you are too close just back off a little, as long as you pass the blue buses at this turn you are doing great. Just be careful.
The next is a hard left that takes you back to the starting line. If you got ahead of the blue and teal bus there will be a bit of congestion there. Stay close to the inside but be careful you dont hit the grass too much. You should be able to get 5th or 6th before the 2nd lap starts. Follow the same lines as before and watch your corners for a chance to pass on the inside. I got to 1st at the last long straight, but the dark green bus in front is a little violent, so screw the line and do whatever it takes to stay away from him. Take both last lefts carefully and you'll grab first.
Its tough, but possible when you learn the track. I havent tried the Lotus challenge yet because i've been working on licenses, but i assume its roughly the same process just much faster.
Cool thanks. I will give this a try. Anything to get this bus done. I hate the tasks where whatever it is you are driving is real slow!
wmmk
Jul 14, 03:30 PM
You would think they would come out with the fastest chip...
I mean what seperates them from a Dell or HP workstation that is top of the line? OS X (yes), but to the ones on the fence that doesn't justify paying more for less.
A 2.66 Ghz Woodcrest will probably be faster than a 2.93Ghz Conroe. A 1.83Ghz Yonah is faster than a 3.2Ghz Pentium, right?;)
I mean what seperates them from a Dell or HP workstation that is top of the line? OS X (yes), but to the ones on the fence that doesn't justify paying more for less.
A 2.66 Ghz Woodcrest will probably be faster than a 2.93Ghz Conroe. A 1.83Ghz Yonah is faster than a 3.2Ghz Pentium, right?;)
Chupa Chupa
Apr 11, 07:51 AM
I'm sure the idiot fanboys will buy it no matter what, but people like myself (who actually make a living and want reliable, efficient software) are ready to leave.
Then that just begs the question, "why haven't these people left already?" FCP has been fairly stagnant for years. There are plenty of other alternatives, so doesn't that kinda make them fanboyish too for sticking it out when up to this point Apple has given zero hints about when or how it will take FCP to the next level?
I'm not in the video editing biz, but if the pro s/w I use in my profession hobbled my efficiency and workflow the way you are carping about FCP, and there were viable alternatives, I would abandon it quicker than pigeon can snatch a bread crumb. Just sayin'.
Then that just begs the question, "why haven't these people left already?" FCP has been fairly stagnant for years. There are plenty of other alternatives, so doesn't that kinda make them fanboyish too for sticking it out when up to this point Apple has given zero hints about when or how it will take FCP to the next level?
I'm not in the video editing biz, but if the pro s/w I use in my profession hobbled my efficiency and workflow the way you are carping about FCP, and there were viable alternatives, I would abandon it quicker than pigeon can snatch a bread crumb. Just sayin'.
Cheerwino
Apr 19, 08:02 PM
Me, Urg, first caveman to make rock round! Michelin and Firestone steal idea!
Buschmaster
Aug 16, 10:36 PM
Was there any doubt it wouldn't be a lot faster? I mean, I know it was already plenty fast, but come on...
SeattleMoose
Apr 5, 07:17 PM
When they revamped Logic Pro they cut the price from $999 to $499.....fingers crossed for FCP.
JGowan
Jul 15, 02:09 PM
Man if they put the power supply on the top that would just be insanely stupid.-markThat's just some guy's rendition who knows a little about Adobe software. Certainly not Jonathan Ive's work, nor will remotely look like that.
Reach9
Apr 11, 04:11 PM
Perhaps solely in the phone part of the equation. Here's the newsflash: the "smart" part of "smartphone" encompasses much more than a voice-driven contact list and actual phone calls.
The iOS ecosystem completely destroys Android, no matter how many widgets you're able to install.
You're right, but here's where i think is the difference. Browsing the Internet, Calendar, Checking Mail, Listening to songs, Texting, Multitasking, Notifications, Cut-Copy-Paste, ability to open and use Office files, Navigation system, basic tools like Currency converters, To-Do lists etc. These are what i believe encompasses in a "smartphone", and here's the newsflash: Android OS meets them perfectly.
I'm not talking about widgets, customization, dynamic wallapers etc
The iPhone was late on MMS, Multitasking, Cut-Copy-Paste, and now it's going to be a notification system. Plus, browsing the internet, checking mail and practically everything is much better on a bigger screen.
I feel the App Store is just an added feature, and that's why i'd get an iPod Touch for.
Imagine your iPhone without the App store and all the apps you downloaded from it. Now imagine the HTC EVO without the Android app store. Which is the better smartphone? It's pretty obvious if you ask me.
Android OS already has the "smartphone" features down, and they're just working on the bonus features such as the Android App Store.
iOS on the other hand is catching up to these "smartphone" features. My old Nokia E63 had a better notification system than the iPhone, and that's pathetic.
The iOS ecosystem completely destroys Android, no matter how many widgets you're able to install.
You're right, but here's where i think is the difference. Browsing the Internet, Calendar, Checking Mail, Listening to songs, Texting, Multitasking, Notifications, Cut-Copy-Paste, ability to open and use Office files, Navigation system, basic tools like Currency converters, To-Do lists etc. These are what i believe encompasses in a "smartphone", and here's the newsflash: Android OS meets them perfectly.
I'm not talking about widgets, customization, dynamic wallapers etc
The iPhone was late on MMS, Multitasking, Cut-Copy-Paste, and now it's going to be a notification system. Plus, browsing the internet, checking mail and practically everything is much better on a bigger screen.
I feel the App Store is just an added feature, and that's why i'd get an iPod Touch for.
Imagine your iPhone without the App store and all the apps you downloaded from it. Now imagine the HTC EVO without the Android app store. Which is the better smartphone? It's pretty obvious if you ask me.
Android OS already has the "smartphone" features down, and they're just working on the bonus features such as the Android App Store.
iOS on the other hand is catching up to these "smartphone" features. My old Nokia E63 had a better notification system than the iPhone, and that's pathetic.
freeny
Aug 7, 04:18 PM
Time Machine looks pretty sweet. How do you think it will work in terms of space requirements?
you would be safe in assuming to have double the amount of space used by files on your main HD. This will end up being like RAM, The more you have the better it will serve you....
Lacie is very excited about this im sure:D
you would be safe in assuming to have double the amount of space used by files on your main HD. This will end up being like RAM, The more you have the better it will serve you....
Lacie is very excited about this im sure:D
BRLawyer
Aug 20, 05:34 AM
The only conclusion following the advent of the duo MacPro x Leopard is this: Microsoft Windows is dead.
mkjellman
Sep 18, 11:06 PM
APPLE I NEED A NEW MACBOOK PRO. I NEED FIREWIRE 800, I NEED A DL SuperDrive, i'd like MEMROM. If you had to release a half-assed Prosumer laptop in the first place to start your transition for the love of god PLEASE update it now. Its been a LONG time since we've seen any updates. Apple is now competing in INTEL land, were they need to keep their laptops current. Release the laptops (notebooks in your case as you like to call them) i'll place the order and wait for them to ship. PLEASE.!
mike
mike
snebes
Apr 7, 11:16 PM
Good for Apple on this. One less retailer over charging for their products. I hope they pull the Apple stores out all together and find a new retail partner.
BornAgainMac
Aug 17, 09:39 AM
I don't like Adobe anymore. :mad:
Vulpinemac
Apr 25, 03:36 PM
I agree, Apple is pretty ridiculous at times.
That must be who you meant, since you clearly haven't had time to read the lawsuit yet.
Or do you think all lawsuits are 'money grubbers'?
Personally, I think all lawsuits are 'Money Grubbers' and should be barred from filing unless there is evidence of criminal intent against the user. Right now the reports are so vague that I expect by the time this lawsuit hits the court, the judge will simply throw it out as frivolous.
That must be who you meant, since you clearly haven't had time to read the lawsuit yet.
Or do you think all lawsuits are 'money grubbers'?
Personally, I think all lawsuits are 'Money Grubbers' and should be barred from filing unless there is evidence of criminal intent against the user. Right now the reports are so vague that I expect by the time this lawsuit hits the court, the judge will simply throw it out as frivolous.
Nuck81
Nov 25, 02:46 PM
Need For Speed: Shift looks better than GT5. Especially the in car Cockpit cam. The shadows of GT5 are a fickering jaggy especially in car. I'm hoping they can patch all that out. Not to mention the AI of GT5 is horrible. The cars just stay on the driving line like those old time cars at the amusement park. There is no regard to racing or competition. In Shift, the AI is trying to beat you. They bump you they pass you, they get too aggressive and make mistakes, causing wrecks and spin outs. There is no better console racer in that regard. GT5 AI only makes contact if you are in their line, not that they are actually trying to "beat" you.
The Driving feels good though after I switched the brake/gas to the triggers and off the awkward right stick. GT5 would be better to be marketing as a Driving/Time Trial game. Not a Racing/Competition game. I'll put my time into GT5. and it will be a blast trying to beat my times on the tracks with the different cars, but I won't play the game looking to win races against competition. For that, I'm looking forward to Shift 2 already...
GT5 is a 8.5 for me.
The Driving feels good though after I switched the brake/gas to the triggers and off the awkward right stick. GT5 would be better to be marketing as a Driving/Time Trial game. Not a Racing/Competition game. I'll put my time into GT5. and it will be a blast trying to beat my times on the tracks with the different cars, but I won't play the game looking to win races against competition. For that, I'm looking forward to Shift 2 already...
GT5 is a 8.5 for me.
ohaithar
Aug 22, 07:37 AM
I bought GT PSP and its as if the developers actively tried to suck all the enjoyment out of the series.
GT for the PSP did suck
GT for the PSP did suck
penter
Jul 27, 02:06 PM
i literally let out a high pitched "aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh" when i saw this. Im really excited about it, yet so sad that i wont be able to enjoy it since i just bought my new mac a month ago (hence the "aaaahhhh")
this summarizes my post: :) but :(
this summarizes my post: :) but :(
gnasher729
Aug 17, 09:17 AM
Edit: Please ignore this post, I can't count!!!
If you buy a Xeon 5160 (3.0GHz) at the moment they are �570. Apple are charging �530 to upgrade from Xeon 5150 (2.66GHz) to the Xeon 5160. Bearing in mind that you can probably sell the original 2.66Gz chip for around �300, it would be cheaper to buy the lower spec Mac Pro and upgrade yourself.
It's not something I would do myself, but some enterprising dealer could easily do that. In US prices, difference between two 3.00 GHz and two 2.66 GHz chips is roughly $300, and you could sell the 2.66 GHz ones at a premium because they had "extra burn-in testing" :-)
Seriously, the problem is getting money for the 2.66 chips.
If you buy a Xeon 5160 (3.0GHz) at the moment they are �570. Apple are charging �530 to upgrade from Xeon 5150 (2.66GHz) to the Xeon 5160. Bearing in mind that you can probably sell the original 2.66Gz chip for around �300, it would be cheaper to buy the lower spec Mac Pro and upgrade yourself.
It's not something I would do myself, but some enterprising dealer could easily do that. In US prices, difference between two 3.00 GHz and two 2.66 GHz chips is roughly $300, and you could sell the 2.66 GHz ones at a premium because they had "extra burn-in testing" :-)
Seriously, the problem is getting money for the 2.66 chips.
satzzz
Aug 19, 05:52 PM
There's allready en new beta of Adobe's Lightroom, Does that one run native under on the intel machines?